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413X1NKP
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alex @413X1NKP

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My ASCII art got removed for no apparent reason

Posted by 413X1NKP - 4 days ago

My ASCII slungus and ASCII axolotl got removed by moderators from art portal, but i struggle to figure out what rule i broke.


You see, it's literally just ASCII art, made by me, with timelapse proof that i even linked.. There was even a signature left by me in the corner....


Now trying to visit either link will just bring you to this page

iu_1426433_7776703.png


I've googled and stumbled upon a forum where people say to read the rules, but i did!!!!


My art wasn't AI generated and i seriously doubt that you can even AI-generate ASCII art anyway??

My art was MINE and there was proof with timelapse linked on my bluesky, which itself is linked on my profile AND on my bluesky profile.

My art was just of a bunny and an axolotl, so it was labelled E for Everyone.

My art wasn't just photography, because i made the art myself. I doubt that traditional artists would get their art removed?

No thirdparty assets, unless english alphabet and ASCII characters have gotten copyrighted without me noticing.

I didn't promote anything either. I left a link to my bluesky post but that's because i needed to link the timelapse as a VIDEO..


Maybe i should've emailed the support with this, but i'm still waiting on another response from them and honestly with the way the removal was handled (no warning, no mention of any broken rules), i'm inclined to believe that i'd just get a generic "you broke some rule, read the rules again" response.


Overall i'm very confused and sad. I just got to the art portal and now i feel like i'm already getting kicked out without even an explanation. Yes i checked the email.


I don't know what to do from here. I guess newgrounds isn't as safe space as i thought at first.

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SouSTAR

https://www.newgrounds.com/wiki/help-information/terms-of-use/art-guidelines

"Typography is allowed, as is text in comics or story pieces but please avoid pieces that only consist of unmodified text."

So ASCII art is not allowed in the art portal.
If you want to share your ascii art, you can share it in your newsposts.

413X1NKP (Updated )

thank you for a response, but i'm still confused

i think calling ASCII art just some "text" is a bit strange in my opinion.
i'd get it if i just posted a screenshot of an e-book i'm reading on the art-portal, but i literally spent time drawing the image WITH TEXT. it's not that much different from pixel art, and pixel art isn't forbidden..

even if pixel-art were to be forbidden, ALL digital artists obviously wouldn't get banned (even though every digital image is made of pixels), but ASCII art does, just because it's technically "text"?

regarding posting ASCII art in newsposts, newsposts can't be licensed.
besides, those are meant for NEWS, not ART.
i honestly thought ART is meant for ART-PORTAL, but i guess ASCII art isn't "ART" enough..

this all just makes me sad

SouSTAR

@413X1NKP
Well, ascii art *is* unmodified text. That's the whole deal of ascii art. To make drawings with text, and standalone text is not allowed in the art portal. Pixelart is not text. Ascii art and pixelart are very different.

Also the newsposts are meant for anything you want. If anything, it's the only place where the rules are less strict.

Also, as far as I know, ascii art can't be licenced.
This time I'm citing Code of Federal Regulations.
"Words and short phrases such as names, titles, and slogans; familiar symbols or designs; mere variations of typographic ornamentation, lettering or coloring; mere listing of ingredients or contents" can't be copyrighted. So something like ":)" is technically ASCII art, which consist of a colon and a bracket, can't be copyrighted.

So we can't copyright "familiar symbols" and "variations of typographic ornamentation".

But again, you can still post your ascii art in your newsposts :)

413X1NKP (Updated )

ascii art, like any other "text-based" work can be copyrighted AND licensed.
imagine if program's source code couldn't be copyrighted or licensed, that would wreck havoc upon this world.

what you cited says that FONTS can't be copyrighted. in fact, no font is copyrighted. it's the FONT FILES (i.e. .ttf) that are copyrighted. you can replicate a font with no legal repercussions. that's it.

regarding familiar symbols, i never posted an image of an "S" or a "W" or a "T" or any other singular character, so i never even tried to copyright them. i posted an ASCII art of an axolotl. i doubt that an ASCII art of an axolotl is part of someone's everyday vocabulary.

and honestly, i don't want to be pedantic, but "avoid pieces that only consist of unmodified text" doesn't mean the same thing as "posting pieces that only consist of unmodified text isn't allowed". regardless, i don't even know if THIS is why my works got removed in the first place, as (i can't stress this enough) i didn't get a warning or a notification about my works just getting blasted out of existence.

this all reads to me like the public domain issue. clair de la lune is in public domain, but ULTRAKILL and The Evil Within both use it in their soundtrack, yet they're copyrighted and themselves are NOT part of public domain.
sure, you can't copyright just some letter, because that's absurd, but not being able to copyright work consisting of a creative variation of letters would literally make all books non-copyrightable, and i doubt that's fair for anyone.

i'm just a guy who just started doing art, choosing ASCII because i'm used to writing programs. and i have to deal with moderators thinking that my art isn't art enough by their standards. how is that not discouraging?? i thought we were supposed to celebrate human art, and yet my art isn't even seen as art.

one final thing just in case: you can't copyright a GUITAR, but you can PLAY THE GUITAR to make music that you CAN copyright or license.

feeling like i got punched in the face for drawing a sunset instead of sunrise.

SouSTAR

@413X1NKP
I didn't even talked about fonts.

"avoid pieces that only consist of unmodified text" doesn't mean the same thing as "posting pieces that only consist of unmodified text isn't allowed"
I agree, but i think they wrote that with comics in mind, so people won't just write ton of text and draw a tiny stickman as compensation.

" i didn't get a warning or a notification about my works"
i read somewhere it was because mods didn't wanted people to argue and argue, and losing time re-explaining the rules.

"not being able to copyright work consisting of a creative variation of letters would literally make all books non-copyrightable"

That's not how copyright works.
https://www.copyright.gov/registration/literary-works/
"A literary work is a work that explains, describes, or narrates a particular subject, theme, or idea through the use of narrative, descriptive, or explanatory text, rather than dialog or dramatic action. Generally, literary works are intended to be read; they are not intended to be performed before an audience"
You can't read ascii art. You can read text. Once again, it's not the same thing.

"if program's source code couldn't be copyrighted or licensed, that would wreck havoc upon this world."
A code and "ascii art" aren't the same thing.

A code, pixelart, a book are all different things, and even more different compared to "ascii art".

if you think that you "have to deal with moderators thinking that [your] art isn't art enough by their standards" (when it's not even the case, they're not going to "judge" each piece individually per their taste), then so be it.

It's not against you. The rules are the same for everyone.

413X1NKP

the reason i brought up books and source code is because they're also fully made of letters, which as you yourself say, aren't copyrightable. that's it. a creative work, even if made with something non-copyrightable, can still be copyrighted itself.

you literally cited something that says that fonts can't be copyrighted. you did talk about fonts.

i'm tired of arguing my feelings and logic with someone who doesn't care enough to read carefully, instead just doing a figurative cuckoo sign against everything i say.

SouSTAR

"you can't copyright a GUITAR, but you can PLAY THE GUITAR to make music that you CAN copyright or license."

I don't know why you keep bringing up pixelart, books, code and now guitars to compare it with ascii...

"feeling like i got punched in the face for drawing a sunset instead of sunrise."

You're taking stuff too personally... :/

413X1NKP (Updated )

try reading what you're quoting before responding and who knows, maybe you'll start to understand why i keep bringing up those seemingly random things

"You're taking stuff too personally" look i get that you don't care at all. you think this whole situation is not a big deal. why respond to my post then?

SouSTAR

@413X1NKP
"why respond to my post then?"
Because i care? But i guess i shouldn't then :/ mb

CrimsonKero

@SouSTAR Your point is that the ASCII art qualifies as "unmodified text." under the Art Guidelines, and can't be copyrighted as art.

@413X1NKP You argue ASCII art is closer to pixel art than a piece of literature or code, making it more than just "unmodified text".

The problem here is that ASCII is a weird case that isn't properly defined by NG's rules.
However, I have seen other ASCII entries on NG. Should ALL of these be removed too?

https://www.newgrounds.com/search/conduct/art?suitabilities=etma&c=4&terms=ascii
(Note: Most of these date before 2021, though I did find one from Dec 2024. Entries from "StoneStoryRPG" are also animated, likely negating the "unmodified text" clause)

In this specific case, I saw 413X1NKP's axolotl, and it looked pretty basic, so that could be it.
If it IS the case, I would recommend additional artistic measures, such as coloured ASCII or a mixed media approach combining ASCII with "wallpaper" graphics, or just not loading simple drawings into a basic ASCII generator (emphasis on "simple").

413X1NKP (Updated )

thank you for your reply!!

i want to quickly get out of the way the ASCII generator thing. i don't use it. here's timelapse of how i made the axolotl:
FLASHING LIGHTS WARNING https://bsky.app/profile/413x1nkp.bsky.social/post/3ltghkxpeqk2d

and yes it's pretty basic. i'm JUST starting out art. i don't see anyone else's beginner drawings getting removed....

i don't want to link anyone specific so that someone else's art doesn't also get removed, but i saw post on art portal that was in similar style as my own posts. just white ASCII on black background. it's been up for quite some time.

i thought about doing colored ASCII, in fact i'm writing a program just to make it easier to "paint" ANSI color codes over text, but i never thought that monochrome art is not allowed?

what i think would be great is getting a solid statement on whether or not ASCII art is allowed on the art-portal or not.

....and sorry i got aggressive before, @SouSTAR. i think something about this whole situation just triggered me.

SouSTAR

@CrimsonKero

I see, the rule about typography is written under "Scene Creators, Third Party Assets", which was put when people started uploading stuff from SFM (more precisely, models they didn't made).
So i guess this rule is relatively new.
I wonder if these ascii pieces weren't removed because they were uploaded before the rule about typography (and scene creators) was put

Chdonga

The mods could definitely do a better job at highlighting which rule was broken in the future. I've been on here a long time and I didn't know Ascii art wasn't allowed either. And everything else I have to say has already been said.

SouSTAR

@413X1NKP

It's okay. :)
Like @CrimsonKero wrote, art made with ASCII isn't defined in NG's rules.

And like you wrote, there's a difference between "avoiding" and "not allowed" . I wrote that they may have put "avoiding" to allow comics, but not those who "only consist of unmodified text" (ie. Literacy), but Ascii art does only consist of unmodified text, even though it's not literacy.

This rule is ambiguous... ASCII was allowed before, but it got unintentionally forbidden because of people who just slap captions/text on other people drawings ( as written in the same clause "Scene Creators, Third Party Assets" : "do not submit images where you have added captions or stories over someone else's artwork.") and since then, the mods are just following this rule that originally targeted these caption-images "pieces that only consist of unmodified text". Ascii art got "caught in the crossfire" against these caption images, we could say (i don't know how to phrase it differently)

xeiavica

This surprises me, because @TomFulp has in fact told me he would love to see more experimental stuff in the movies portal, as in, ASCII animations. No idea why it isn't allowed in the art portal.

TomFulp

I've republished these two pieces and I'm checking in with the mods on the topic of ascii art.

SebTheMagician

@SouSTAR @413X1NKP
No, not every digital artwork would be banned because *every* image in NG is made of pixels. That's complete lunacy and for a strawman, that's dumb. The difference between a digital artist VS a pixel artist is that pixel artists don't work in big canvas compared to digital art. This is because pixel art is small, and they're usually scaled up because some sites make small images blurry. Why digital artists exactly but not everyone who makes art in the portal?

BrandyBuizel

@TomFulp imma weigh in, it's art. rate it poorly if you want, but it's art through adversity and i respect that even if i give it 2 stars

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